October 2, 2008

Debate Wrapup

My early thoughts...

Sarah was nervous at first, but improved as the night went on, but I think she fought well... certainly she looked better.... while Senator Biden was angry, like Obama of a week ago. Including a huge sigh during the Afghanistan exchange.

Why do Democrats do that? Like they can't be troubled by being on the dais with the Republican?

Most comfortable on energy, of course, but she gave a great answer on same sex marriage and the Iraq war. Stumbled around a little on climate change.

Strangely Biden was arguing silly Senate procedural interm votes, as if that "voted for it before i voted against it" worked successfully in the past.

How dare he accuse McCain of voting against the troops? Is he serious?

Overall, it was a great outing for Palin. Where the hell has she been for two weeks? Studying no doubt, but WTF John McCain? Unleash her!

2008 Posted by AlexC at October 2, 2008 10:49 PM

I found her extraordinarily disappointing. She could have easily pinned Copycat Joe with quick rejoinders. For example, "Joe, John McCain voted against that bill because instead of honest funding for our troops, you and the other liberals had to insert our surrender clause."

Blaming predatory lenders for subprime housing. Bull manure.

Biden was smooth, oh so very smooth. As slick as Bubba was in '92 and '96, and just as full of liberal lies.

Posted by: Perry Eidelbus at October 3, 2008 8:55 AM

Okay, if we're playing Hearts & Confessions, I wasn't really happy either. I picked up her nervousness early and found the whole event excruciating. Watching the FOXNews punditry after, I was astonished that others thought she did so well.

I guess I am glad to be wrong.

I'll agree with Perry that she has adopted the worst parts of Senator McCain's message. But she has to -- that's the VP gig. In my dream world, when Katie Couric asks what SCOTUS decisions she disagrees with, she gives her trademark smile and says "McConnell v. FEC."

I guess I'll ever be picked as Vice President. Then again, Eidelbus-Kranz has a nice ring to it...

Posted by: jk at October 3, 2008 10:34 AM

She did well enough to stop the bleeding in the McCain camp. Her populist answers to the economic problems were painful, but as JK says, she has to speak the company line.

In the coming weeks, she will hopefully be unleashed on the talk shows. Her confidence seems to be increasing and she could start to swing momentum.

A few things The Refugee would like to see the McCain camp say in the coming weeks:

"Senator Obama, if you believe that $700 billion is a 'massive' bailout, how can you so easily propose $1 trillion in new spending, as if it were trivial?"

"Senator Obama, at a time when our financial system is tetering and unemployment is rising, your economic plan of increasing taxes and increasing spending is exactly wrong. You'll take a fender-bender and turn it into a train wreck."

"Senator, you say that raising taxes on the investor class is a matter of fairness. Please, tell me why it's fair to take something that someone has earned and give it to someone else?"

"Senator Obama, you're right when you say that the middle class is the economic engine of the country. But what you don't understand is that the investor class provides the fuel. You want to tax the investor class out of existence. Well, Senator, no fuel no progress."

Posted by: Boulder Refugee at October 3, 2008 11:05 AM

And another one:

"Senator, you want to punish companies that, quote, 'Send American jobs overseas.' Senator, we have the second highest corporate tax in the world. Surely you can understand that rational business will locate where taxes are lower all other things being equal. Don't you see how lowering corporate taxes will cause jobs to flood into America from all over the world?"

Posted by: Boulder Refugee at October 3, 2008 11:12 AM

Sure, I'll play. Here's an answer for the health care question she ducked:

"Senator Biden, you have worked in government your whole life and I am glad that has worked for you. In the modern, private economy, young people will likely have a career that spans ten or more jobs. They don't lose their car insurance when they change jobs, why should they lose their health care?

"Senator McCain's plan is tax neutral between employer and individual policies. That shift and freedom from state mandates will provide the competitive market we need to provide available, affordable health care for the modern economy.

"And, God Bless America!"

Posted by: jk at October 3, 2008 12:01 PM

I haven't seen the debate yet as I had vaulting practice last night. I suggest, however, that what those of us in this crowd would prefer to hear may not be what wins elections. I feel completely at a loss to understand how anyone can be in favor of the socialist policies of Obama and the democrats and yet about 47% of the country plans to vote for him. I'm having lunch with a co-worker who plans to support Obama to try to help me understand. Can anyone here tell me why? Heretic? Bueller?

BR strikes a chord deep in my soul when he says,

"Senator, you say that raising taxes on the investor class is a matter of fairness. Please, tell me why it's fair to take something that someone has earned and give it to someone else."

I practically have steam coming out of my ears everytime I hear Obama characterize the lower taxes of the Bush Administration as, "giving," more to the rich. Since when is allowing me to KEEP what I EARN, giving it to me????

End of rant.

Posted by: dagny at October 3, 2008 12:57 PM

For 2012, I do want to register in at least a couple of states, so friends can write me in. Wouldn't it be great to smile on your deathbed as you think, "At least I got more votes for president than Pat Buchanan!"

Remember my platform? http://www.threesources.com/archives/005468.html

A few more to add here:

Insurance: you want some, get your own. It's not the Constitutional or moral duty of the government to provide it for you. But the federal government will no longer hinder you by preventing you from buying across state lines. Also, I'll be relentless in bashing state governors and legislators who insist on absurd mandates so men can be covered for hysterectomies.

Foreign policy: We won't interfere in your own affairs if you won't interfere in ours, and that means we largely won't come to the rescue if someone invades you. But if you attack us, we're going to destroy your country. If you harbor terrorists or weapons who even break wind in our general direction, we will invade your country to kill those people and/or destroy the weapons, and don't be surprised if we set up a new government before leaving.

Energy: drill, baby, drill. In the best tradition of Andrew Jackson calling for selling off the Bank of the United States, the federal government will sell off all lands that could have at least a drop of oil. Most of these lands are locked off to all but the most elite of the limousine liberal elite, so the American people as a whole will benefit far more when the lands are tapped for fossil fuels.

Crime and punishment: death penalty for liberals.

Posted by: Perry Eidelbus at October 3, 2008 1:25 PM

Dangy: You ask why I would vote for Obama.

First off let me digress say that I am with this group when it comes to major economic policies – especially elimination of Corporate and Personal Income Taxes. BR and I were exchanging e-mail the other day about a pipe-dream: Taxes based solely on consumption. I happen to know a state where it works, namely Dubai. Of course we can debate about civil liberties etc. but that is not the point.

Having said that, as much as Economic policies is at the top of everyone’s mind at the moment, First and foremost I believe that Foreign Policy will and should be the top issue. I believe that Pakistan becoming a failed state and the resulting consequences in Afghanistan is a very real possibility in the next Presidents tenure. What will complicate issues is a economically assertive China (the banker of the US), a politically resurgent and saber rattling Russia and Iran’s influence in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. McCain other than name dropping hasn’t even mentioned Afghanistan. He continues to insist that Iraq is the central battleground in the war on terror while al-Qaeda wasn’t even in Iraq until months after the US invasion. The real battle in Iraq is the Shia-Sunni conflict and the battle with al-Sadar’s Mahdi army, which McCain refuses to acknowledge. This wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time has significantly reduced not only our ability to take the war to the enemy’s home turf but also alienated many of our NATO allies – who BTW we need to neutralize Russia. (We can debate McCain’s position on the NATO at another time). In the meantime, bin-Laden and the Taliban have had a chance to regroup in southern Afghanistan/Northern Pakistan enough to pose a threat to the Pakistani establishment itself. I am sure most commentators on this blog will disagree, but Biden is right on this topic.

Secondly, as a first generation immigrant, I grew up looking at the US as the beacon of freedom, be it personal and civil liberties or economic progress. In the 12 +/- years (which is all my adult life) I have lived here, I have seen us lose a lot of the moral fortitude be it gay rights or a woman’s right to choose. Debate over these issues is beyond the scope of what you have asked me.

Thirdly, I cannot in good conscience cast my vote for a lifetime member of the NRA, when every time I read about another shooting in yet another school, my stomach sinks in the thought – what of a few years down the lane if my kid is the victim.

Fourth, on economic policies, I neither agree with McCain nor do I agree with Obama. However, I see hope in the fact that just like Bill Clinton, once the political rhetoric of an election settles, Obama will implement what is right for the country rather than sticking to a pre-election political agenda. On this note, I do hope while Obama wins the White House, the Democrats do not have absolute control over Congress. I would like to see the checks and balance built into the system work.

Last but not the least, you could argue that McCain in quite capable of adapting his positions to the circumstances and has gained a lot of political experiences over the years. And I am certain your arguments would be well founded. However, what scares me is the fact is Palin being a “hear beat away from Presidency”. This notion with McCain is more real than with any other candidate I have known given his health problems. Negotiating with King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia or President Zardari of Pakistan or containing Prime Minister Putin of Russia or President Ahmedinejad of Iran is not the same as driving kids to soccer practice. She is vindictive and naïve. It would be irresponsible of me to vote for her under the current circumstances.

You could argue Obama's inexperience. But he is not naive nor is he vindictive. He is a very level headed person. Further, the ticket inclidesthe foriegn policy expertise of Biden. Hence has my support.

Posted by: The Heretic at October 4, 2008 10:05 PM | What do you think? [8]